Item 4.3 ADDITIONAL MATERIAL posted 09/02/14ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
From: mr5sntl0gmail.com [mai Ito: mr5sntl @ gmail.com] On Behalf Of Larry Pollack
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 9:50 AM
To: Don Higginson; Dave Grosch; Jim Cunningham; John Mullin; Steve Vaus
Cc: Janet Pollack
Subject: September 2 Agenda Item 4.3: Safety Improvements related to the Intersection of
Martincoit Rd & Stone Canyon Rd
Dear Mayor and Councilmembers,
My apologies for the lateness of my email. Due to a prior engagement, I will not be able to attend this
upcoming council meeting. Please consider these comments to be from my wife and myself as we are in
agreement on this matter. We hope you will have time to review our thoughts prior to the meeting.
I do not support the proposed agenda item. While I will normally be the first in line to support safety
improvements, I find this recommendation to be incomplete in that it fails to address the primary concern
regarding this intersection.
Having driven through this intersection frequently, the primary concern the ability of drivers on Stone
Canyon Road to determine when it is safe to proceed onto Martincoit Road. This is demonstrated
through the following conditions:
Stone Canyon Road drivers turning left have LESS than the minimum sight distance to make a
decision as to when it is safe to proceed.
o Per the findings presented in the 1 APR council meeting agenda item 4. 1, for drivers
turning left from Stone Canyon Road onto Martincoit Road, the site distance "is
approximately 220 feet to the south." the recommended distance is 374 feet and a
minimum is 240 feet.
Southbound traffic on Martincoit Road is NOT always visible to drivers on Stone Canyon Road.
o Item 4.1 also states that the sight distance is "over 500 feet to the north." While this may
be technically correct according to the prescribed measurement approach, it does not take
into account the grade of Martincoit Road that causes vehicles to disappear from view
just north of Stone Canyon Road. Having travelled through this intersection many times,
I have experienced approaching and stopping on Stone Canyon Road, able to see
northward toward Rostrata Road, and then be surprised by a vehicle suddenly visible
approaching Stone Canyon.
Installation of traffic calming options does nothing to improve this situation. The proposed flashing
beacon is well beyond the sight line of drivers waiting to turn left onto Martincoit Road. Drivers turning
left still have no indication whether traffic is approaching and at what speed.
Furthermore, Mayor Higginson and Councilmembers Mullin and Cunningham all stated that their
opposition was based on lack of reportable accidents /traffic data. What has changed in the past 5 months?
Based on traffic data, logic would dictate that no change to intersection is warranted rather than spending
$11,000 ($4,300 MORE than the all -way stop signs) on a solution that does not address the primary
problem?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Lawrence and Janet Pollack
16340 Martincoit Road
1 of 1 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
From: William J Yssel [mailto:WJYssel @sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 10:46 PM
To: Don Higginson; DGorsch @poway.org; Jim Cunningham; John Mullin; Steve Vaus
Cc: VVYssel @sbcglobal.net; WJYssel @sbcglobal.net
Subject: Poway City Council Meeting - 2 September
Dear Gentlemen,
Not being able to attend the City Council Meetings on Tuesday nighs due to a standing commitment that we
have, I thought I would send an e-mail with some observations and opinions. I have watched several of the
Council Meetings on the Poway City web -age and am thankful that these have been made available. I have
also attended most of the meetings of the Traffic Safety Committee relating the intersection of Stone Canyon
and Martincoit.
I have the greatest respect, appreciation, and praise for the Traffic Safety Committee. They are working very
hard while being confronted with many obstacles. The presentation that they will be making for the
intersection shows a lot of thought and effort. The idea of reorienting the intersection will improve the
visibility of traffic turning left off of Stone Canyon onto Martincoit, but is still less than adequate. Many of
the drivers already pull to the right when approaching the intersection to make a left turn on to Martincoit.
The proposal to place channelizers at the intersection to prevent northbound vehicles on Martincoit from
cutting across the lane when turning left onto Stone Canyon would be a hindrance to the School Bus traffic
that must make that turn. Possibly a good idea that will never happen.
Traffic from Stone Canyon wanting to turn left onto Martincoit to go north will still have to pull into the
intersection to be able to look right, look left, and look right again; since the northbound traffic coming down
Martincoit has the Right -of -Way whether they are proceeding down Martincoit or turning left on to Stone
Canyon, and the sight distance is marginal at best.
At the Meeting of the Traffic Safety Committee several residents of the Community came to express their
concern. Most of the comments related to either the excess speed on Martincoit, or the need for the All-
Way STOP Sign. The Committee listened patiently and politely, knowing that both of these issues had been
taken out of their control. The speed issue by the laws of the State of California, and the All -Way STOP Sign
by a Split Decision by the Poway City Council, some of whom appeared not to be familiar with the
intersection. To the Mayor's credit he did spend some time at the intersection observing the uniqueness of
the 120 degree turn and the difficult visibility issue.
You (we) have a Safety Committee that has been studying this interjection for over a year, has expended
significant time and resources, has Unanimously recommended an All -Way STOP Sign to the City Council on
two separate occasions. They are our experts on Traffic Safety, That is their job, the job which you have
hired them to do; and our safety is their only concern. I plead with one of you who opposed the
recommendation, to take a closer look at the problem and untie the hands of the Safety Committee and
allow them to fix the situation in their preferred manner, instead of just putting a Band -aid on a broken arm.
Show some faith in your Committee, or don't have one.
Thanks for your time. I love Poway.
Bill Yssel
Dr William J Yssel
ROTHR Program
Home: 858 - 592 -2321
Cell: 858 - 722 -7957
1 of 1 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
From: samhoffman @cox.net [ma ilto:samhoff man @cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 8:55 AM
To: Jim Cunningham; Dave Grosch; John Mullin; Steve Vaus
Subject: 3 way stop on the corner of Martincoit and Stone Canyon
Dear Sirs,
I have been a resident of Martincoit Road since June, 1995. During that time I have driven through the
intersection of Martincoit and Stone Canyon almost everyday. It is my observation that this is an
extremely dangerous intersection - -an accident waiting to happen. The sight lines coming up from Stone
Canyon are quite poor as Martincoit curves as it descends as you are pointed towards Espola causing the
traffic coming down the hill to be almost invisible until they are upon you. In addition, the speed at
which people choose to take the descending hill is usually excessive for the driving situation.
Unfortunately, the ascent on Martincoit isn't much better. There is a bit of a hill as you are ascending
which renders most vehicles almost invisible to someone awaiting a safe turning situation. Now that we
are in election season, there are signs that further complicate the situation.
I strongly urge you to vote to place a 3 way stop on the corner of Martincoit and Stone Canyon; it will
prevent accidents from happening.
Thank you for your time,
Joyce Hoffman
16624 Martincoit Road
Poway, CA 92064
1 of 1 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
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15944 Ranch Hollow Rd
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1 of 1 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
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From: Lynne Baker [mailto:lynneriverpark gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 4:13 PM
To: Melody Rocco
Cc: Steve Vaus; Dave Grosch
Subject: Tonight's Item 4 -
M. Rocco,
Green Valley Highlands Association has not taken a position on the proposed improvements at
the intersection of Stone Canyon and Martincoit. We have no objection, but also do not actively
support them.
Dave and Steve - FYI
Attached, please find the newsletter that was distributed to our homeowners this summer to alert
them to drive more thoughtfully on Stone Canyon and Martincoit. I have observed slower
speeds since it went out with our annual dues notice.
Personally, I observe that Lomica, in the city of San Diego, a cut through street between
Pomerado and the shopping center on Bernardo Center is a 25 mph road. I continue to object to
Stone Canyon and Martincoit newer speed limits above 30 mph. The primary issue for nearby
residents is speed related. It would be ideal to address the real issue with a new study to support
a 30 mph limit.
While that may not be in the future, I am still interested in composing Green Valley specific
burma shave type signs for the right of way to help address the speedsters. Melody, if you would
pass this newsletter copy along to the traffic committee at the next meeting I would greatly
appreciate it.
Thank you all for your service to our Poway -
Lynne Baker
13626 Orchard Gate Road
Poway, CA 92064
619- 972 -5277 mobile
1 of ,Y September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Newsletter Green Valley HOA
Stop Shins & Speedsters
Recently your Green Valley Highlands HOA took a position against the proposed
three way stop at Martincoit and Stone Canyon. This issue first was heard at
Traffic Committee last fall, then came to Council in December 2013 and was
decided in April. Many homeowners signed a petition or attended City traffic
meetings or Council hearings to speak. This made a great deal of difference to the
Council as the proposal was rejected by the City Council on a 3 -2 vote. However,
our neighbors concerns that first drew calls for the sign remain and deserve your
attention and action.
Our neighbors on lower Martincoit and Stone Canyon had their speed limit raised
from 30 mph to 35 mph when the new bike /pedestrian striping was put in. All
agree that 30 mph should be the top limit for residential areas, but the City must
follow a state law (designed to prevent speed traps) where the limits must be set
according to average top speeds. Having more people using the bike lanes for
walking and biking has helped some people drive more cautiously, but others are
oblivious. Many of the newer owners have small children, as our neighborhood
ownership continually renews. Fast cars right in front of a family home always
make us mad. The increased speed limit moved some of our lower Green Valley
neighbors to appeal to council.
Council have been told by staff that their hands were tied when it came to setting
the limit, so then asked the traffic committee to study adding a stop sign at Stone
Canyon. Unfortunately, the layman idea that a stop sign can help control speeds is
flat wrong.
Traffic engineers all agree that stop signs do not control speeding. In fact, people
will speed up to the sign and away from it. For neighbors with homes near the
proposed sign, the noise of braking and acceleration is worse, and time of car
sounds is increased when a stop sign is added. This sign was to come with a big
flashing warning signal south of the new sign — something no one would want near
their front yard. Concern for a big pile up along the S curve of upper Martincoit
above the new stop sign also informed our opposition.
2 of 4 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Stone Canyon and Martincoit do not meet at an easy 90 degree angle. Special care
must be taken due to the slopes of the two streets and how they meet. We observe
that drivers are more cautious with the current signage, and that caution is
warranted. For travelers turning north onto Martincoit from Stone Canyon, it does
require those traveling north into the intersection from our community to be
traveling at safe speed so one can easily yield to those ahead. As the corner is not
at 90 degrees, it is also too easy to cut off the corner as
we turn onto Stone Canyon. Remember to pull fully into
the intersection before making the corner. The
intersection does not have a history of accidents that
indicate signage changes are necessary for safety.
The real neighborhood traffic issue is speeding on Stone
Canyon and Martincoit. We are fortunate to have
Rancho Santa Fe style streets in our community, with
lovely vistas, homes, curves and hills. The roads are a
delight to drive — at 25 or 30. Over that limit, drivers
may not be able to correct in time to protect pedestrians
and bikers, or react to something unexpected.
So, this spring and summer, as school is getting out and we benefit from no pass
through school traffic, let's show our neighbors on lower Martincoit and Stone
Canyon that we appreciate our neighborhood — all of our neighborhood. Take the
extra two minutes the stop sign would have placed in your morning commute to
demonstrate safe residential speeds. If you have a newer driver in your home,
discuss this article with them. Perhaps you might ask them to recall how they
would have felt as a younger child if they were allowed to travel Martincoit on a
bike to see their friends? Most would drive more slowly for other kids to benefit
from that new opportunity.
If we aim to drive 25 — 30 despite the higher limit, we would help make our
neighborhood more pedestrian and child friendly. That will go a long ways
towards solving the problem for our neighbors and keep our streets stop -sign free.
To inspire new driving habits, we leave you with some humor from the Burma
Shave sign era.
3 of 4 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Between 1925 and 1963, the leading shaving cream of the time was Burma Shave.
They advertised with a series of signs placed along the road spaced so you could
read the limerick as you drove. Each sign gave only a snippet of the rhyme.
In honor of Martincoit's curves ...
4 of 4 September 2, 2014, Item # 4.3