Item 5.1 ADDITIONAL MATERIAL posted 10/14/14ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
From: Joe Nalven [mailto:joe.nalven3C@ymail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 2:15 PM
To: Jim Cunningham; John Mullin; Steve Vaus; DAve Grosch; Don Higginson; Dan Singer
Subject: Re: Comments on staff report for Council Agenda Oct 21 re: Off Leash Area at Silverset Park
To: Cunningham, Grosch, Higginson, Mullin and Vaus
Enclosed is a follow up comment with respect to the alleged health risks in the ball field at Silverset park
from dog poop. Research findings below suggest that common sense is a practical solution.
I was curious about the concern Poway City Staff (R. Bettin) raised about youngsters playing on the
Silverset ball field.
I imagine there are risks -- real risks -- of broken arms, fingers, legs as well as bruises and twisted ankles
and arms while playing softball. Such actual injuries occur more frequently than anything alleged from
dog (or coyote or rabbit poop) in the same park.
Given the actual dangers at the ball field, I wonder why softball isn't discontinued.
Clearly, that is a rhetorical question since common sense tells us there are real risks in athletics of any
kind. Yet we tolerate them. We often require shin guards and helmets, but injuries do occur.
So, why not use a common sense approach to having dogs offleash in the same ball park? What is the
risk factor?
I found an interesting article on the internet from the Health and Safety Council in Manchester, England.
While this occurred in the context of workers, the same rationale can be applied to youngsters playing
ball. (There would be a problem with crawling infants who are unable to look after themselves while
crawling, but once children are running around and playing ball they can use the same common sense as
the workers in this decision -- use common sense and clean up. Hence, no real health risk for the
population in question.)
You should rely on this reasoning (unless you find other medical reports about playing in parks -- which
may require elimination of playing in all Poway parks) rather than staff unsupported assertion. Staff
comments in this regard come from messy thinking.
Joe Nalven
Case 255 - Council staff not allowed to tackle dog fouling in children's play area
Issue
A Council were requested to clean up multiple dog fouling from an infants play area, however,
the Council replied using the following unjustified health and safety reason for not clearing up
the dog fouling "Unfortunately, the Council's grounds maintenance team are not allowed to
tackle dog fouling by hand (including spades) for health and safety reasons."
Panel decision
1 of 3 October 21, 2014 Item # 5.1
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In this case those most at risk from the behaviour of irresponsible dog owners are children. The
Council is right to encourage owners to clean up after their dogs — and the steps they are taking
r
to keep dogs out of the play area are sensible. However, saying that their staff cannot clear u
Ithemess for health and safety reasons is incorrect. Any risks to adults from clearing upr-
:after dogs can be easily managed by simple precautions and good hv2iene.F
Health and Safety Executive: http:// www .hse.gov.uk/aboutuslindex.htm
It is 40 years since the Health and Safety at Work Act received Royal Assent, providing a new regulatory
framework for work place health and safety in Great Britain. This has helped make Britain one of the
safest places in the world to work, saving thousands of lives, preventing many more injuries at work and
reducing the economic and social costs of health and safety failures.
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Joe Nalven <ioe.nalven3 @gmail.com> wrote:
Hi All:
In Poway, we know each other or can get to know each other fairly easily. We still retain the neighborly
sense for most things -- and what comes before you.
In the spirit of neighborliness, the staff report re: Off Leash Area for Dogs at Silverset Park (Oct 21,
2014), the staff notes:
That Powegians should share parks and be inclusive: Section 10 of the City of Poway Facility Use Rules
and Regulations and adopted by City Council, "neighborhood parks are for the enjoyment of all Poway
residents. In scheduling the use of neighborhood parks, the objective shall: be to balance the use of the
park for the enjoyment of the surrounding neighborhood, and use of the park to meet the needs of
organized sports. "
(What those who favor the use of an enclosed area (avoiding the concerns of some
;idents of offleash dogs) is that they are part of "all residents" and help create a "balance" in the u
the park for eniovment
would also ask for staff to support the contention that there is a health risk factor in dogs sharing t
all field with sports participants. In the 15 years that the park was used informally for offleash dog!
here has not been a reported case of illness or injury related to the ball park (in relation to doge
se). Children are more likely to get sick when going to school (infectious diseases), yet we don't cic
he schools down unless there is a major problem. Also, children riding around the running track mil
un into seniors (I've had near misses), but we don't prohibit children from doine this
re should be some measurable support for this claim of incompatibility from veterinarians, docto
and others with REPORTS of actual harms -- not speculat
2 of 3 October 21, 2014 Item # 5.1
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urthermore, the report mentions a 500% increase in use from 3 to 18 events. That is not a very usefu
tatistic. (I'm speaking as a social science researcher who knows a meaningful statistics.) What we've`
ctually seen at the park has been very minimal use. Can time - stamped photos be provided to sup_pori
its usage? And for what part of the day -- less than, what, 10% of the day in use?"-
o, what if the ball field is allowed for offleash dogs from November through March. There will likely
ERO use by the league and ZERO health risks. At least during that period of time as seasonal use, th
taff report is totally off base.
d, without any medical studies showing health risks, incompatibility concerns are also meritless.
iff not realize that birds, coyotes, and yes, dogs, poop and pee on the soccer field and yet there is
mments about that incompatibility. What about our backyards and other places that our children
am not minimizing real concerns, but the staff report errs on the side of silliness -- unless furthe
ocumentation exists -- maybe from the CDC, NIH or other published documentation F
I hope that you can use a common sense, kick - the - tires, approach to ferret out the spirit and letter
Poway policy is about for "all" residents: to balance the use of the park for the enjoyment of the
surrounding neighborhood, and use of the park to meet the needs of organized sports. " (When.
organized sports are actually using the parks)
Many thanks for your attention,
Joe Nalven
14738 Shadowbrook Court
Poway
858 - 679 -1242
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From: Susie Hovey <mshovev @cox.net>
Date: October 12, 2014 at 1:26:55 PM PDT
To: <icunnineham @poway.ore >, <derosch @poway.ore >, <imullin @poway.ore >, <dsineer @poway.ore>
Subject: Silverset Park - Dog Usage
Dear Council Members —
As a 20 -year resident of Rancho Arbolitos, I support usine the ball field as an off -leash doe park for
limited hours in the mornings. This ball field rarely is used as the organized boys and girls teams play at
their own fields. However by limiting the dog use hours, the field would still be available for those very
occasional pick -up games or individual practices.
Please allow responsible dog owners to exercise their pets in a safe, neighborhood area ... the park
belongs to all of us.
Thanks for your consideration of this matter,
Susie Hovey
619 - 227 -0791
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From: Brewster Schenck [mailto:bschenckgoutlook.com]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 1:15 PM
To: Jim Cunningham
Subject: Silverset Park Off -Leash Dog Area
Please support the request for a limited off -leash area for dogs at Silverset Park. Three hours a day in a
small area of the park is a small request and would be a very happy place for dog owners in the area. I
have used that park hundreds of times for youth soccer practices and never had any problems with dogs
over many years.
Respectfully,
Brewster Schenck
Oakline area
Sent from Windows Mail
1 of 1 October 21, 2014 Item # 5.1
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From: Linda Johnston [mailto:lindaj(�i)sandiego.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 2:31 PM
To: Don Higginson
Subject: Silverset Park Off Leash Proposal
Dear Poway City Council Members,
Thank you for the time and effort you all have given to the Silverset Park, off leash area
proposal. Having listened to both sides, I completely support the conditional use of the ball field
during limited morning hours. The ball field which belongs to all of us, is virtually unused during the
morning hours. It provides a safe retreat for dogs and their responsible owners to play in an open space.
Many comments have been made regarding the existing Poway Dog Park, and questioning why this group
feels so adamantly about using Silverset. A walk to the park is significantly healthier and more
environmentally friendly than getting into a car and driving 3 miles to another park. Our park is a place
where we can enjoy the outdoors, meet neighbors, and build relationships and community.
Those opposed to the off leash area, have used much misinformation to gain a following. The fact is,
using the ball field for dogs and owners to gather was a tradition at Silverset for decades. It evolved over
time from a natural need to have a safe space for dogs to play. The ball field was no worse for wear, the
neighborhood wasn't impacted by traffic, and the park was a welcoming place for all.
Thank you for your consideration.
a4d .4ca& poxu
12724 Aspen Ct.
Poway, CA 92064
1 of 1 October 21, 2014 Item # 5.1